"The Sufis called it “cutting off the head”, Jesus called it “born again” – the only way you can be born again is to die first – the Hindu’s jnani calls it “loss of self”, the mystics call it immersion in or union with God – one cannot truly unite without loss of a separated self, nor can one immerse into something without losing its separateness."
Indeed, this is just beginning to dawn on me, mostly from studying ACIM. ACIM calls it "seeing," and says the greatest barrier to "seeing" is the ego's will to survive, driven by the fear that "seeing" will kill it -- which it will. Perhaps that is why Alan Watts commented that "egoless people have great character." They have love, which ACIM defines as the opposite of fear.
I do believe that the transition from "not seeing" to "seeing" is inevitable, and it has in terms of divine timelessness already happened, but will, at least in my case, be perceived as a long, slow process. I can sense already the peace and freedom that come with "seeing" and really want to get on with it. So, back to ACIM... knowing that when I no longer need to refer to ACIM, I will have the destination in sight and the "perception train" will be slowing for a stop. Like the old Gospel song says, "I've never been this homesick before."
Namaste
Art
My question
jenjulian wrote, and otehrs commented ...
Jesus said the way is narrow because we fit through only one at a time, and that includeswithout all our baggage, like ego!
Here's Muggeridge on groups: Those who set out for it alone will reach it together and those who seek it in company will perish by themselves.Some groups will not even allow their members to meditate because they believe that this can allow the devil a way in.
Jesus said the way is narrow because we fit through only one at a time, and that includeswithout all our baggage, like ego!
W4 says: "Like the old Gospel song says, "I've never been this homesick before." "
I don't know to which home you were referring, but it can be taken either way. In this case, I will take it to mean that there is a homesickness for "the old ways", because in my own case, within the sense of fear of loss, there was also a "homesickness" for the status quo, generated, of course, by your's truly, ego-shmeego! Indeed, as one loses out to the expanded universe, that is inevitable as one deals with what one is not, and what one is, there is a real grieving that occurs, and an aching for the "ease" or known sense of living as a separated being. This too, is all generated, of course, by the loser, the great separated being called "me". It is kind of like stacked decks - you find yourself constantly resisting because the game is rigged in favor of the status quo, by virtue of the fact that it is the separated being that sets up the game in the first place - in this instance, the game of living in a separated universe, as an individual ego-centric being.
There was a real sadness in letting go of the known, the comfortable, the apparently secure status of being in charge, of knowing what needed to be known, of control. It was, and is, a real process of grief generated by a sense of dying. To expect otherwise is naive at best, and self-deluding at worst. Death either occurs now, or at the end of the body's life, and there is no reason to assume that it will be any different in small increments than at one fell swoop. It is this realization, I believe, that more than likely stops aspirants from going further, understandably so.
As great old Nisargadatta once said: "You aren't there because you still want something here." (My paraphrase - can't remember the exact words.) Simple, but hard truth.
I don't know to which home you were referring, but it can be taken either way. In this case, I will take it to mean that there is a homesickness for "the old ways", because in my own case, within the sense of fear of loss, there was also a "homesickness" for the status quo, generated, of course, by your's truly, ego-shmeego! Indeed, as one loses out to the expanded universe, that is inevitable as one deals with what one is not, and what one is, there is a real grieving that occurs, and an aching for the "ease" or known sense of living as a separated being. This too, is all generated, of course, by the loser, the great separated being called "me". It is kind of like stacked decks - you find yourself constantly resisting because the game is rigged in favor of the status quo, by virtue of the fact that it is the separated being that sets up the game in the first place - in this instance, the game of living in a separated universe, as an individual ego-centric being.
There was a real sadness in letting go of the known, the comfortable, the apparently secure status of being in charge, of knowing what needed to be known, of control. It was, and is, a real process of grief generated by a sense of dying. To expect otherwise is naive at best, and self-deluding at worst. Death either occurs now, or at the end of the body's life, and there is no reason to assume that it will be any different in small increments than at one fell swoop. It is this realization, I believe, that more than likely stops aspirants from going further, understandably so.
As great old Nisargadatta once said: "You aren't there because you still want something here." (My paraphrase - can't remember the exact words.) Simple, but hard truth.
" there is a real grieving that occurs, and an aching for the "ease" or known sense of living as a separated being"
How extraordinarily true that is. In fact, it was an attack of that very thing that "caused" my sojourn into hard-core, fundamentlaist, orthodox Christianity for so long. A yearing to identify with, and maintain contact with, a past that I had romanticized, a childhood that really was rather lousy but was surrounded in memory by fireplaces with cozy fires and the safety of having been told what to think, what to believe, and what to do. And, of coure, it kept God "at bay," out there, functioning, hopefully, as a deus ex machina in case of illness or disaster ... and good ol' Satan out there, too, to blame for everything that went wrong.
The "homesickness" I feel now is different, though. It is a sense of expectancy: a promise in the process of being fulfilled. ACIM talks a lot about "seeing," peeking beyond the veil, so to speak, into reality. Much the same idea as Gautama's nirvana, or the "awakening" of the mystics. Exiting the nightmare and discovering the universe that is there to be discovered when awake.
Not, though, in the sense of "escape." Clearly, the current state of affairs in my life is simply a stage in the awakening, not a horrible prison to be escaped but part and parcel of the total experience God is having as "me." Perhaps Paul had tapped into that when he said, "I have learned in whatever state I am to be content." The "awakening" process is thus not an avenue to freedom, but an intergral part of the freedom itself.
George Carlin, talkin gon Glenn Beck's show on CNN, last night said of the world crisis of terrorism, nuclear arms races, religious warfare and such, that he doesn't fear it or worry about it, but "enjoys watching the circus." Gues that's the best way to look at the whole mess: as a spectator, watching the circus, knowing that just outside the tent is the real world and we'll be there shortly. Or, we'll realize that we are there.
Namaste
Art
How extraordinarily true that is. In fact, it was an attack of that very thing that "caused" my sojourn into hard-core, fundamentlaist, orthodox Christianity for so long. A yearing to identify with, and maintain contact with, a past that I had romanticized, a childhood that really was rather lousy but was surrounded in memory by fireplaces with cozy fires and the safety of having been told what to think, what to believe, and what to do. And, of coure, it kept God "at bay," out there, functioning, hopefully, as a deus ex machina in case of illness or disaster ... and good ol' Satan out there, too, to blame for everything that went wrong.
The "homesickness" I feel now is different, though. It is a sense of expectancy: a promise in the process of being fulfilled. ACIM talks a lot about "seeing," peeking beyond the veil, so to speak, into reality. Much the same idea as Gautama's nirvana, or the "awakening" of the mystics. Exiting the nightmare and discovering the universe that is there to be discovered when awake.
Not, though, in the sense of "escape." Clearly, the current state of affairs in my life is simply a stage in the awakening, not a horrible prison to be escaped but part and parcel of the total experience God is having as "me." Perhaps Paul had tapped into that when he said, "I have learned in whatever state I am to be content." The "awakening" process is thus not an avenue to freedom, but an intergral part of the freedom itself.
George Carlin, talkin gon Glenn Beck's show on CNN, last night said of the world crisis of terrorism, nuclear arms races, religious warfare and such, that he doesn't fear it or worry about it, but "enjoys watching the circus." Gues that's the best way to look at the whole mess: as a spectator, watching the circus, knowing that just outside the tent is the real world and we'll be there shortly. Or, we'll realize that we are there.
Namaste
Art
"I can at best report only from my own wilderness. The important thing is that each man possess such a wilderness and that he consider what marvels are to be observed there." -- Loren Eiseley
Here's Muggeridge on groups: Those who set out for it alone will reach it together and those who seek it in company will perish by themselves.
That's a cool quote. It addresses the brain twist I used to get when I first started learning about shedding the ego. The need to step away from the crowd and the need to understand we are all one used to drive me crazy. This quote expresses that funny relationship that aloneness and oneness really mean. (if that made any sense at all)
Gosh, I relate so well to both the feeling of grief Anna speaks of and also the one Art is speaking to. I have said to a spiritual guide often, I just wished I could join a group and follow what they say. It is the wanting to find a comfortable corner to stay in, but I know so much better than that. Anna's essay, Resistance, Visualizing, and Surrender addresses the yearning to get on the paved road, rather than the 'unbeaten path' and the struggle with not knowing if we are moving in the right direction or not. It sure isn't comfortable much of the time. I don't too often wish for the 'old times' because my ego self has caused mostly pain in my life. I wish more for a sure sign, but those don't come often, but I have had them.
The yearning that W4TVQ talks of is something I also experience, and a lot lately. I have had those moments and glimpses and occasional floods of something more. They leave me with joy and then comes the yearning for a continued state of this Love. Has anyone watched the movie Pan's Labrynth? Very different film, that left me sobbing and unleashed that yearning from a place so deep in me. I'm not sure what 'going home' is, but that is what was addressed in the movie. Is this something we all experince?
"Has anyone watched the movie Pan's Labrynth?"
Never heard of it, but I'll definitely track it down.
Speaking of Pan, the chapter is The Wind in the Willows entitled "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" also speaks to that yearning; it's really a lovely essay which I read over and over.
Never heard of it, but I'll definitely track it down.
Speaking of Pan, the chapter is The Wind in the Willows entitled "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" also speaks to that yearning; it's really a lovely essay which I read over and over.
"I can at best report only from my own wilderness. The important thing is that each man possess such a wilderness and that he consider what marvels are to be observed there." -- Loren Eiseley
I will check out Wind in the Willows from the library. I'm not sure if I've read this or not, but looking forward to it. I would very much like to hear what others think of Pan's Labrynith. It has violence in it, which I usually will never watch, but I couldn't stop watching this one. Thanks for another good recommendation!
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Ihavesayso
- Posts: 57
- Joined: January 3rd, 2005, 7:54 pm
- Location: Lodi, California, USA
Phew! So much wisdom is contained in this thread! My heartfelt gratitude to all of its contributors, as your well thought ideas expose me to so much I have yet to consider!
Stefan, I do trust that you have made arrangements to archive this forum, so that its remarkable insights are not lost to posterity, as were, unfortunately, those made in the first!
Stefan, I do trust that you have made arrangements to archive this forum, so that its remarkable insights are not lost to posterity, as were, unfortunately, those made in the first!
If God is not your ventriloquist, you're just another "dummy!" - ihavesayso