A New Earth/ Oprah

[jenjulian]

Oprah is having a series on Elkhart Tolle's book A New Earth. Christians are launching an attack campaign on Oprah. Any thoughts on this?
I'm personally thrilled to have this kind of spiritual discussion going on in our country. I just read a quote somewhere, don't remember where or who said it but I find some wisdom in it.
(something like...) Every new spiritual truth starts out as a heresey and ends up as a myth.

[anna]

All I can say about organized efforts to obstruct free thinking is pity those who do so. No one loses but the objector. The thoughts remain accessible, and free thought is our birth right, even if in prison, no one can control your thoughts. So, as Jesus might reply, "Give unto Caesar what is due Caesar" - let them do what they do, and let the world react as it shall. And walk on. Only those who are unsure of what they believe object to other beliefs. Actually, the bruhaha will probably benefit both Oprah as well as Tolle, which otherwise might go relatively unnoticed and quickly. Nothing like a little bit of controversy to sell something.

[zoofence]

I am reading Founding Faith, a fascinating study of religion in the American colonies at the time of the drafting of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. It is an easy read, and particularly for Americans living in today's cultural environment, it is interesting stuff.

From that book, here's Thomas Jefferson on the general subject of this thread: "I have ever thought religion a concern purely between our god and our consciences, for which we were accountable to him, and not the priests. I never told my own religion, nor scrutinized that of another. My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest".

Somewhat to my surprise, as far as I have so far gotten into the book, it seems that for the religious freedom that is built into the founding documents, we owe as much to James Madison as anyone. He evidently was a zealot on the subject of religious liberty. Thank God.

[jenjulian]

Has anyone been over at Oprah's website to watch the classes with Tolle or participate in the dboard? I took part in it and it was an awesome experience, but very time consuming. I feel like I've crawled out of a cave and back in the sunlight! Truly it was an experience like I've never been through before. I caught the last half of it, watching and talking on the boards with others and the energy of the movement was overwhelming.
Some very nasty debates with a few fundamental Christians, but also some grand discussions. I met some fabulous people too! They are running summer class, for anyone interested!
jen

[W4TVQ]

I have just finished reading A New Earth, and cannot for the life of me see what the fuss is all about. It is a book of very good psychology. Most of the fuss is from "Anti-New Age" contingents, who are, if one examines their output carefully, merely "anti" and not really "for" anything.

I am growing inceasingly tired of so-called "Christians" being against this and against that, running about flapping their arms and shouting "We're all gonna die." If Jesus himself returned today and walked among us as he did 2000 years ago, He would not recognize "his" church. I'm reminded of Dosktoyevsky's magnificent story, The Grand Inquisitor (a chapter in The Brothers Karamazov). In this story Jesus returns, and is taken prisoner by the Inquisition. The Grand Inquisitor explains to him that he will not be permitted to return, not be allowed to be heard by the people, because his message and his very presence would upset the system they have carefully built up over the centuries in his name. He is told, simply, that "for the sake of the church, you must die."

I have little doubt that he would be taken down by the religious establishment of our day and crucified once again, in order to save the church that has been created in his name.

Namaste
Art

[zoofence]

If Jesus himself returned today and walked among us as he did 2000 years ago, He would not recognize "his" church.

Of course, you are right. And not only would he not recognize it, neither would he be surprised by it. And it doesn’t take two thousand years. Even today, too often when a guru dies, the disciples begin arm wrestling among themselves over who is the “legitimate successor” even before his or her body is cold, and in the struggle for dominance, the Teaching is trampled upon. My favorite relatively recent example is when Aurobindo’s consort (referred to as The Mother) died, the disciples literally fought over her dead body!

But it is where, in one form or another, we all start.

Once again, if God is Infinite, then God is all there is. That being so, there is only One Reality, and it includes all of that and all of this and all of everything else. And it is all synonymous and identical, there being only One Word with only One Meaning when all the curlicues are rinsed away, notwithstanding the fact that it sure doesn’t seem that way to us.

What ultimately opens us to the possibility of another way of seeing ourselves and the world and God? How is it that somehow sometime we consider alternative explanations? Why does one seem inflexible as rock, and another as open and responsive as water? Is it something we do? Is it something done to us? Is it intentional? Accidental? Karma? Destiny? Astrology? Diet? Upbringing? Evolution?

Increasingly, I am convinced that we (that is, “Stefan” and “Art” and “Neo” and “Jen…” and “Doctor…” and so on) have far less to do with who and what we seem to have become than I used to think. Increasingly, I see it as a seed in the ground which does not grow itself into a tree, but simply grows into a tree … because that is what seeds do.

So, you’re right. Christianity as an institution – culturally, historically, and practically, is a far cry from the Gospels Teachings. But human history suggests we should not be surprised by that. The important thing is that the Gospels Teachings survive, and they continue to fertilize the ground, nourishing the seeds therein!

[Speculum]

Here are a few lines I came across today on the internet that may apply to this thread. Certainly, they reflect a phenomenon I have come across here and there, hopefully not too often in the mirror. The source is Louise Erdrich, who according to Wikipedia is a Native American author and poet. I confess I am not familiar with her or her work; but this is a very nice line.

They were so strong in their beliefs that there came a time when it hardly mattered what exactly those beliefs were; they all fused into a single
stubbornness.

[jenjulian]

I have little doubt that he would be taken down by the religious establishment of our day and crucified once again, in order to save the church that has been created in his name.

Namaste
Art

Created in his name? Or created in the name of political or social agendas?
I think it is interesting there are churches in the same block that will not even acknowledge or talk with each other.
My God is better than your God.
Women are subservient to men? Yea, right. Tell that to my wife.
I have always wondered if Jesus returned to earth on a Saturday night, what church would he go to on Sunday morning?
Anyone hazard a guess?

I would say none of them. I think he would be out hanging with all of us sinners, out on the street in the city, or maybe out on the beautiful prairies in Kansas, meditating among the splendor of the earth. Maybe he would go and strip down all of the flashy signs and hoopla advertising at the churches like he tipped over all the tables???
Maybe he would...

[jenjulian]

Here are a few lines I came across today on the internet that may apply to this thread. Certainly, they reflect a phenomenon I have come across here and there, hopefully not too often in the mirror. The source is Louise Erdrich, who according to Wikipedia is a Native American author and poet. I confess I am not familiar with her or her work; but this is a very nice line.

They were so strong in their beliefs that there came a time when it hardly mattered what exactly those beliefs were; they all fused into a single
stubbornness.

What a wise obersvation.

[jenjulian]

"The truth you believe and cling to makes you unavailable to hear anything new."
~Pema Chodron

[phyllis]

I have little doubt that he would be taken down by the religious establishment of our day ... I think he would be out hanging with all of us sinners ...

How do we know he is not here among us right now? In this country we seem to assume he would come to America and maybe even be an American, and that certainly he would speak English. Maybe it is also true that our expectations "makes you unavailable to hear anything new."